The Dirt on.. Fixer-Uppers: Secrets Every Utah Buyer Should Hear

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Welcome to the Dirt on Real Estate today, everyone.

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So excited to have you back. We have a great

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episode planned for today. We're gonna start

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out with a quick update on what interest rates

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are doing right now, and then we have an awesome

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interview with Adam. Adam has been in the construction

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industry for over 20 years as a general contractor.

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He's flipped many houses. He's done residential

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work, commercial work. He has a ton of experience

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in the construction world, so stay tuned for

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that. And finally, we head out to Riverton to

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tour a beautiful town home from Edge Homes. It's

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an amazing home. Stick around for that. We've

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got lots of great dirt coming your way. I'm just

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gonna take a second here before the interview

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with Adam to give you a quick update on what

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mortgage interest rates are doing at the moment.

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Currently, nationwide, the 30 -year fixed rate

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average is 6 .27%. Now, these have come down

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quite a bit. They were up... Six and three quarters,

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7 % fairly recently. So these are definitely

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the lowest rates we've seen in some time. But

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with these lower rates, it is an amazing time

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to jump into the market right now. There's some

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amazing opportunities out there. Please reach

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out to me if you have any questions about the

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Utah market. That's it for our quick update as

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far as interest rates right now. Let's hop into

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this interview with Adam. Thank you everyone

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for coming back to the Dirt on Real Estate. We

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are here today with Adam. So excited to have

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you on today, Adam. Thank you for taking the

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time. Give us a little bit of your background,

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what you've done in your career and what you

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currently do, and then we'll kind of jump into

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our interview from there. But I want to give,

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let you talk a little bit of your background

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and that'll introduce our topic for today. Thank

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you very much, Will. Pleasure to be with you.

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As far as my background, I got a degree in design

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and illustration and then found my way shortly

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thereafter into a commercial construction company.

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I had the opportunity to really learn at a fairly

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high level the development side of the business

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by helping a lot of companies get Everything

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from 2 acres, 5 acres, 10 acres, 20 acres entitlement,

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designing and building their facilities. So most

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of my work for, I'd say from 2000 to 2015 or

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so was helping owner users find, entitle, design

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and build, and even finance their own buildings.

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Through the course of that, me and my partners

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got involved with several different development

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projects, some in which we were investing, some

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in which we were acting as our own developer,

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but it really gave me kind of a, I think a fairly

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wide perspective on the real estate market. Most

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of that was commercial and industrial, but by

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the end of my tenure with that company, my partner

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and I owned a small portfolio of probably 15

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or 20 homes. And, you know, we had done several

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multifamily deals, assisted living, self storage,

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medical dental, you know, so we had had experience

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in several different realms. I ended up selling

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that company and then kind of going quiet for

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a while. But with that experience, there's always

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the opportunity to get back in at kind of any

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point, whether you want to do commercial, industrial,

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passive investments, you know, buy and flip.

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I don't know. Hopefully that'll give you enough

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background. Now, I think that's perfect that

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I think that gives the viewers just a little

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bit of of your experience and knowledge. So what

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do you focus on mainly for time being now? What

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is your day to day look like? I haven't wanted

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to be going what you would call full time. So

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I'm I'll do a couple of residential flips, maybe

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one or two commercial tenant improvements. So

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that would be mostly as a general contractor.

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And then currently I'm developing a somewhat

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unique product, which is kind of a combination

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of self storage, Honda minimized. So I am developing

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some smaller industrial flex spaces that are

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for sale. Very cool. So I think today what I

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would want to talk about and if that's if it's

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OK with you, just from a first time buyer perspective,

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which is mainly what we focus on here with this

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show is for someone. My age that has very little

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construction background, maybe give us a little

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bit of your knowledge today. If you go into a

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house, maybe you don't love the term flipping,

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but when you're repositioning a house, what it

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looks like for you to go in and evaluate how

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much work needs to be done. I think I understand

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what you're going for and I think I would use

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the word goalposts. There's no way someone could

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have enough experience or enough perspective

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unless they've really done, you know, several

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deals. So I guess at least the way I'm understanding

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the question, I would just suggest that someone

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has a very clear goalpost as far as how long

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are you going to be here and what is your really

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goal, your actual goal? So are you looking to

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make money in the short term, you know, buy the

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home, fix it up, sell the home in a two, three

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year time period? Is it an actual flip, you know,

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where you're looking to get in there? and sell

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the thing six, eight months later? Or are you

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just saying, boy, I just want to make sure that

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I stay on the right side of equity. So if somebody

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just can clarify what their goal really is, I

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think that's the only realistic way to, at least

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the way I'm understanding the question, is to

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go into a deal. It's a construction project.

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Everything will go wrong. Cost could be whatever

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you want it to be. You know what I mean? You

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have to have a budget and a realistic assessment

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of how much work am I willing to do? And none

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of that really is realistic. I mean, things go

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wrong halfway through the project. You get this

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harebrained idea to, oh, let's add a bathroom

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in the attic space. And I guess go into a project

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as a first time buyer with a really clear understanding

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of what it is you're going to do. You're going

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to live there for 10 years. Well, then that's

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a totally different situation from someone who's

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looking to make money and exit the next two years.

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Is that an acceptable answer? That's a great

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answer. Let's give it the scenario of somebody

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that is going to stay in the home for at least

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five years, five years minimum, because that's

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typically what we recommend in the real estate

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industry. A lot of people will say if you can

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stay in the home for five years, typically you'll

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have positive equity. So if you're staying in

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a home for five years, what kind of projects

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would you look at and say, maybe in this house,

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it's just Too much work. Like do you just stay

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away from foundation issues? Do you stay away

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from sewer line issues? Maybe talk a little bit

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about what projects are more work than it looks

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like from the outside And maybe projects that

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are a little easier than you would think Yeah,

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and see my answer would be uniquely unhelpful

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to most of your listeners because you know I've

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been a licensed general contractor for 20 years,

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so I'm not intimidated at all by sewer line issues

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or you know, foundation issues. As a matter of

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fact, about a year ago, I did a flip up at Olympus

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Cove that, you know, I bought it for $200 ,000

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under ask because of those two issues, foundation

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and sewer. And I was able to remedy both of them

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for less than $20 ,000. It was a very, very simple

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thing because of my experience, but I don't think

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that would be the norm for most of your audience.

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So I would think that as long as a first time

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buyer has done their homework, you know, probably

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with a licensed realtor saying, Are we buying

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this at a realistic price given the amount of

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work that it needs? So, you know, based on comps

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and that kind of thing, if you buy something

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right, then I think the traditional ones are

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going to be, you know, kitchen, master bath and

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landscaping. If you're able to go in there and

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do something that adds value in those three areas,

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normally, once you add those three improvements,

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kitchen, master bath, landscaping and five years,

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you're going to be, you know, good, good money

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ahead. Yeah, you know, barring some kind of unforeseen

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nightmare, you know, like a structural flaw or

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some kind of plumbing disaster. Normally someone's

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able to get an estimate on a kitchen or even

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a master bath. And yes, it's expensive, but normally

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you're able to look at that kind of stuff and

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say, wow, it's going to cost me X. It's going

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to be worth Y. And after a couple of years, you

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know, at least in my experience, you know, my

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25 years of experience in Utah real estate, you're

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virtually always going to come out on the good

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side there. unless you have some very, you know,

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unusual event, you know, like the 2009 recession

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or something like that. Sure. So maybe what are

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kind of the biggest red flags that you see when

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you walk into a home, whether it's maybe old

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electrical or old plumbing, but what are the

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biggest red flags that you're looking for when

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you walk into a home? I mean, normally that's

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even before I walk in, it's what it's priced

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at. You know what I mean? So if I'll look at

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a house and say, okay, it's 4 ,000 square feet

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and we're in Cottonwood Heights. And, you know,

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they're asking, you know, 295 a square foot.

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You're just like, okay, well, there's just, you

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know, you're already at the very, very top of

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the market. Why would you do this? So unless

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the house was immaculate, I just wouldn't even

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go there. So I would say price, you know, price

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is the biggest mistake where someone's looking

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at it, getting emotionally excited by it, you

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know, even considering it when it's already on

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the wrong side of the of the field. I think it's

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a little bit too general to say what would be

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the biggest mistake. Some homes may have a cracked

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foundation and that might be a $15 ,000 foam

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lift. It might not be that big of a deal at all.

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So I guess I don't know how to answer the question

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as far as what are the biggest red flags. I really

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think it's if the house is already priced at

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the extreme and you're even considering it or

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trying to find ways to mentally make this math

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work. really try and find the worst house in

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the best neighborhood. I always want to be buying

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at the lower side of the spectrum. Now, I'm not

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big enough to be into wholesaling and really

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getting these homes at 25 % below market. Most

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of my deals I find are on market, but I have

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to look at 15, 20 deals before you find one that

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makes sense. Is that sufficient? Have I addressed

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it? That was great. And that was an interesting

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topic that you brought up of find maybe the worst

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home in the best neighborhood. I don't know.

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Did you just stumble upon that? Is that something

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that you were brought up into? Or is that just

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your common sense, I guess? Yeah, I was going

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to think to me, it seems self evident that, you

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know, from a real estate standpoint, you know,

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there's the old adage about the location. So

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I never know how to overcome a bad location.

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So, for instance, probably about two years ago,

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I did a flip over by Westminster and, you know,

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horrible property. But it was touching Westminster

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campus. So I just I looked at the numbers and

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just thought, OK, you really can't go wrong here.

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I think I bought the project for I don't remember

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exactly. I think I bought it for seven hundred

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and fifty thousand and then put about two hundred

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into it. But it was the kind of project where

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I could have put three hundred three hundred

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fifty and I think I still would have made my

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money back. So it was bought as a triplex. I

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repositioned it. By getting permission from the

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city to add a unit above the garage. So it would

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have then I sold it as a 4plex. I just use that

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as an example that. It was the right location.

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It was in terrible condition needed a lot of

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work, but I could tell right off the bat. The

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location was going to overcome all of that and

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I think I listed the project with about 200 ,000

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profit. I was under contract in a matter of days

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and the very 1st offer bought it. You know, and

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he's done great with it, you know, he's a multifamily,

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he owns a portfolio of smaller four, six, eight

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plexus, saw the value of this, you know, it clicked

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right away. But I literally think that I could

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have put in 100 grand more and made 100 grand

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more, 150 grand more made, you know, maybe still

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100 grand more because it was in the right location.

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It was the right product. I think that's a great

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tip. And you touched on this just a little bit,

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but. Go into a little bit more detail. What features

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in a home add the most value from your perspective?

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You know, I'll definitely, I'm happy to share

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my opinion. I don't consider myself an expert

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on that. And I think some realtors would have

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better data from my personal experience because

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I never do lower end flips, because I'm never

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just trying to whitewash things and just get

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it done as fast as possible. I normally go in

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and say, I'm going to do things as if I were

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going to live here, or I'm going to add the features

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that I want. So I have a fairly simplified recipe

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where, as I mentioned before, master bathroom,

00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:37.559
kitchen, and landscaping, I really do think have

00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:41.500
a disproportionate impact on the appeal of the

00:12:41.500 --> 00:12:45.460
property. Beyond that, I really like to take,

00:12:45.460 --> 00:12:48.139
and I think some people would maybe argue against

00:12:48.139 --> 00:12:51.120
this, but I like to take bold risks with the

00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:56.090
design. So I'll do Loud colors or a very bold

00:12:56.090 --> 00:12:59.330
wallpaper or, you know, do a tile pattern on

00:12:59.330 --> 00:13:00.970
the floor that I don't think many other people

00:13:00.970 --> 00:13:04.169
would do because in my experience, that ability

00:13:04.169 --> 00:13:07.409
to stand out makes a real difference. And that

00:13:07.409 --> 00:13:10.029
most buyers, they know what they like, but they

00:13:10.029 --> 00:13:12.429
have no courage. So they would never do it themselves.

00:13:13.129 --> 00:13:15.570
But when they see it, there's almost kind of

00:13:15.570 --> 00:13:17.529
a relief factor. It's like, ooh, that's different.

00:13:17.590 --> 00:13:20.399
That's cool. I would never have the courage to

00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:21.960
pull the trigger on that myself, but seeing how

00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:25.000
someone else did it. So that's a very simplified

00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:26.980
version of the recipe that I've used. You know

00:13:26.980 --> 00:13:30.000
what I mean? And I would really say that I emphasize

00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.700
master bath and kitchen more than anything. Landscaping,

00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:34.940
I think, is one of those things that will always

00:13:34.940 --> 00:13:37.220
pay you back. But in the last couple of years,

00:13:37.340 --> 00:13:39.639
what landscaping has done is it almost defies

00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:42.120
logic. I used to be able to get a lot done for

00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:45.299
$15 ,000. And nowadays, I would say that even

00:13:45.299 --> 00:13:47.700
a front yard remodel, a lot of times will be

00:13:47.700 --> 00:13:51.820
$40 ,000, $50 ,000. Landscaping has gotten really,

00:13:51.820 --> 00:13:55.000
really pricey. Anyways, that's my simplified

00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:57.840
recipe. OK, I want to touch on a couple things

00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:01.019
there because I first off love that you're not

00:14:01.019 --> 00:14:04.159
just going in and putting in the basic gray cabinets,

00:14:04.580 --> 00:14:08.820
gray floor. Love that stands out. ton. And for

00:14:08.820 --> 00:14:11.419
me, and especially my wife walking into a home,

00:14:11.940 --> 00:14:14.639
that's what draws us to things is those features

00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:18.860
that stand out, the different tiles. If it has

00:14:18.860 --> 00:14:21.840
my wife loves mosaics, if you can put a mosaic

00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:24.440
in a home, yes, you will remember it forever.

00:14:24.899 --> 00:14:27.179
So love that that you're not afraid to put in

00:14:27.179 --> 00:14:29.879
some of those more unique features. And then

00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:32.059
landscaping, I want to touch on just for a little

00:14:32.059 --> 00:14:36.500
bit longer here. When you say a front yard, renovation,

00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:39.799
what exactly goes into that to get you to that

00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:44.259
40, $50 ,000 mark? You know, a lot of times things

00:14:44.259 --> 00:14:46.200
are in bad shape. So at a minimum, you're doing

00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:48.620
what I'd call like a clear and rub where you're

00:14:48.620 --> 00:14:52.080
just, you know, two guys for three or four days

00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:54.570
just hacking down. garbage and throwing it in

00:14:54.570 --> 00:14:56.629
the dumpster and hauling it off. It's surprising,

00:14:56.789 --> 00:14:59.110
you know, if you, if you're paying guys $25,

00:14:59.110 --> 00:15:02.330
$30 an hour, two guys for an eight hour day,

00:15:02.509 --> 00:15:05.669
three, four days, and with five, $600 per dumpster

00:15:05.669 --> 00:15:07.429
haul off, you know, you're very quickly going

00:15:07.429 --> 00:15:10.350
to drop three, four grand, not even to get anything,

00:15:10.710 --> 00:15:12.429
just to get rid of the garbage, you know, just,

00:15:12.429 --> 00:15:15.129
just to see what you got. Add on top of that

00:15:15.129 --> 00:15:18.639
a non -existent or probably a really busted up

00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:20.960
irrigation system, and you're either putting

00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:23.700
in a couple of new valves, several new heads,

00:15:23.940 --> 00:15:26.419
a couple of drip lines, and wham, you're easily

00:15:26.419 --> 00:15:29.159
$5 ,000, $6 ,000 in landscaping. And all you've

00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:32.159
done is clear it up and get it to where it's

00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:35.220
working now. Then if you want to add shrubs,

00:15:35.419 --> 00:15:39.039
trees, bushes, you know, $500, $600 a pop on

00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:42.860
trees, Easily 70, $80 a pop at the greenhouse,

00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:46.139
just to buy a three, five gallon shrub and then,

00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:49.500
you know, to put it all in. So I struggle at

00:15:49.500 --> 00:15:52.379
getting value with landscaping or in other words,

00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:53.960
you know, just kind of what the market is right

00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:57.559
now. It just costs that now. I do think you get

00:15:57.559 --> 00:16:00.200
it back, but man, it's it's kind of a tough pill

00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:03.750
to swallow because. you'll get a couple of bids

00:16:03.750 --> 00:16:05.429
from a couple of different landscapers. And at

00:16:05.429 --> 00:16:08.490
least in the greater Salt Lake area, I'm working

00:16:08.490 --> 00:16:10.610
in Alpine right now. In a lot of these areas,

00:16:10.710 --> 00:16:15.070
they're so busy that the price, they quote, it

00:16:15.070 --> 00:16:17.289
is what it is. It's not like you're going to

00:16:17.289 --> 00:16:20.690
get multiple bids and see a big difference, especially

00:16:20.690 --> 00:16:22.750
if you're flipping. You got to get in there,

00:16:22.809 --> 00:16:24.850
get it done, and get going. You really can't

00:16:24.850 --> 00:16:27.830
burn three, four weeks. Meeting with guys talking

00:16:27.830 --> 00:16:29.970
through different beds, you know equalizing those

00:16:29.970 --> 00:16:32.090
beds getting it on the schedule You really can't

00:16:32.090 --> 00:16:37.090
have to get it done. So That is you know, probably

00:16:37.090 --> 00:16:41.769
not 50 grand, but that's easily 20 25 and you're

00:16:41.769 --> 00:16:44.710
just talking a pretty entry -level Front yard

00:16:44.710 --> 00:16:47.710
you haven't terraced you haven't rated, you know,

00:16:47.710 --> 00:16:50.610
you haven't brought in water features and some

00:16:50.610 --> 00:16:52.740
properties need that Hey, well, and you're not

00:16:52.740 --> 00:16:55.940
talking new sod or new concrete or anything like

00:16:55.940 --> 00:16:59.700
that. That is just get rid of the bad and get

00:16:59.700 --> 00:17:04.559
it working. Wow. Wow. Yeah, I've probably only

00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:08.000
done two projects with, you know, extensive landscaping

00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:11.220
and both of those. Boy, they added they added

00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:14.579
almost six figures and a couple of months. Oh,

00:17:15.140 --> 00:17:18.279
I think that I got my money back, but. Landscaping

00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:21.440
is a lot of work. So I find that a tough one.

00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:25.619
Wow. I think that's a pill that a lot of people

00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:28.299
don't know about. Let's switch gears for just

00:17:28.299 --> 00:17:31.119
a second here. So for a first time home buyer,

00:17:31.299 --> 00:17:34.619
one of the biggest things is a good home inspection.

00:17:34.900 --> 00:17:36.799
That is one of the most valuable things you can

00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:39.920
do before purchasing a home. On a home inspection,

00:17:40.539 --> 00:17:43.160
what would you encourage people to look out for?

00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:46.599
Things that you personally are looking out for?

00:17:47.529 --> 00:17:49.410
You know, I agree with what you said about how

00:17:49.410 --> 00:17:51.470
important it is, but, you know, a word of caution.

00:17:51.970 --> 00:17:54.450
Home inspection is a little bit like, you know,

00:17:54.609 --> 00:17:56.309
they're paid to find problems and they're going

00:17:56.309 --> 00:17:59.509
to find problems. So I've bought projects that

00:17:59.509 --> 00:18:02.509
I know are super clean. I've added a hundred

00:18:02.509 --> 00:18:05.549
grand. And then the buyer got a home inspection.

00:18:05.609 --> 00:18:08.670
They found even more issues. I find a lot of

00:18:08.670 --> 00:18:11.589
the professionals in the home inspection industry

00:18:11.589 --> 00:18:14.579
to be. really very, very problematic, but that's

00:18:14.579 --> 00:18:17.299
what they're paid for. So the only things I care

00:18:17.299 --> 00:18:19.299
about on home inspection are going to be roof

00:18:19.299 --> 00:18:22.420
and mechanical. So mechanical, electrical, plumbing,

00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:24.720
and roof. Virtually everything else I'm going

00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:28.039
to either ignore completely or take with a big

00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:31.200
old grain of salt because so many of the home

00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:33.900
inspectors, and I won't get into personalities

00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:37.319
or anything like that, they're quits that are

00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:41.500
paid to find problems. So Boy, I just don't put

00:18:41.500 --> 00:18:45.180
a whole lot of weight on a home inspection, in

00:18:45.180 --> 00:18:48.359
my experience, unless it's in those kind of really

00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:51.420
four big items. Well, and I would add foundation

00:18:51.420 --> 00:18:54.059
structural with there as well. That's true. That's

00:18:54.059 --> 00:18:56.019
true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. You're right.

00:18:56.299 --> 00:18:57.859
And anything could, you know, they might say,

00:18:57.859 --> 00:18:59.720
oh, three of the four appliances are broken.

00:18:59.819 --> 00:19:01.740
And no, did you realize that all of the toilets

00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:03.839
are run? I mean, you're right that they could

00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:05.940
come up with a number of things. But by and large,

00:19:05.980 --> 00:19:08.200
I find that the majority of what they say they're

00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:11.240
making mountains out of molehills. Now, if you're

00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:13.960
a very inexperienced first -time buyer or if

00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:15.339
you're planning on staying in the home a long

00:19:15.339 --> 00:19:17.700
term, yes, maybe that home inspection begins

00:19:17.700 --> 00:19:20.319
to take on different dimensions and a greater

00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:22.960
level of importance, especially if you're a first

00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:24.779
-time home buyer that says, hey, I don't even

00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:28.500
know how to turn a wrench or adjust the blind.

00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:31.000
So that could be really, really important. I'm

00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:33.400
coming from the other end of the spectrum where

00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:35.200
I'm very hands -on and know how to do everything.

00:19:35.380 --> 00:19:37.940
So obviously, one has to take my opinion with

00:19:37.940 --> 00:19:40.980
a grain of salt. So for your projects, how much

00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:44.059
of it are you personally in there working on

00:19:44.059 --> 00:19:49.279
doing versus hiring out? I hire all of it out.

00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:52.539
Okay. But I do a hundred. I mean, I'm very hands

00:19:52.539 --> 00:19:54.980
on nonetheless, in the sense that I do all the

00:19:54.980 --> 00:19:56.619
inspect, you know, I go look at the property.

00:19:56.980 --> 00:19:59.759
I do the inspection on the property. I meet with

00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:01.319
the subs and say, here's what we're going to

00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:04.099
do. I'm at the job, you know, if not every day,

00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:07.180
every other day, but I don't, you know, hammer

00:20:07.180 --> 00:20:09.819
and saw, I don't paint or anything like that.

00:20:10.619 --> 00:20:13.200
So again, that's why people have to really take

00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:17.319
my opinion lightly because I have all these subs

00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:20.240
and all these connections and I know how to take

00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:22.599
one look at it and see what's going on. Not many

00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:24.440
first time buyers are going to have that same

00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:26.700
type of experience. I don't really have to do

00:20:26.700 --> 00:20:29.579
any of the labor or work per se myself and I

00:20:29.579 --> 00:20:31.680
could immediately recognize if something's being

00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:36.509
done correctly or not. a huge bonus that I bet

00:20:36.509 --> 00:20:39.730
a lot of people would kill for. We're getting

00:20:39.730 --> 00:20:41.849
a little shorter on time here. I'd love just

00:20:41.849 --> 00:20:46.069
maybe a couple stories from you of some things,

00:20:46.349 --> 00:20:49.650
I don't know, you find behind walls or just things

00:20:49.650 --> 00:20:53.289
that went wrong and then wrong and then wrong

00:20:53.289 --> 00:20:56.509
and wrong. Maybe just a couple things that pop

00:20:56.509 --> 00:20:59.829
to your mind. You know, one of them was, you

00:20:59.829 --> 00:21:02.910
know, I bought a property where there was a foundation

00:21:02.910 --> 00:21:05.849
problem and a plumbing problem, and the sellers

00:21:05.849 --> 00:21:09.410
had actually built a wall in front of the wall

00:21:09.410 --> 00:21:12.369
to hide that. They had hired contractors and

00:21:12.369 --> 00:21:15.910
gone to great expense to cover that. And they

00:21:15.910 --> 00:21:20.269
had installed a fake PVC drain that went five

00:21:20.269 --> 00:21:22.710
feet down the wall, 20 feet across the other

00:21:22.710 --> 00:21:26.299
wall and was dumping water into a Home Depot

00:21:26.299 --> 00:21:30.440
orange bucket, all hidden behind a wall. So man,

00:21:30.700 --> 00:21:34.000
that was one where a very malicious seller had

00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:36.799
gone to great lengths to hurt the person they

00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:39.680
were selling to. Luckily, I found it and then

00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:41.279
used it to my advantage. I was like, oh, this

00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:43.059
is a big problem. And this is going to cost tons

00:21:43.059 --> 00:21:45.559
of money to fix. And I think I fixed that problem

00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:48.819
for $10 ,000. I mean, it was really, really easy.

00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:51.680
And I got a massive discount. Sorry, I just want

00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:54.920
to say, were you able to find that before you

00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:57.599
purchased the home? So that was during your inspection

00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:00.720
period? Yes. And I was elated when I found it.

00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:02.579
I was elated because I knew that I was going

00:22:02.579 --> 00:22:05.279
to be able to make lemonade out of this. So when

00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:07.980
I found it, I could not have been happier. I

00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:10.779
can only imagine for a first time buyer finding

00:22:10.779 --> 00:22:14.099
that just a Home Depot bucket being terrified.

00:22:14.900 --> 00:22:17.180
Yeah. Yeah, that's As a first -time buyer, it

00:22:17.180 --> 00:22:19.319
would have been a no -go. You would have had

00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:22.779
to just walk away. Likewise, I looked at a property

00:22:22.779 --> 00:22:27.160
where I could tell that it was aged, but I got

00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:29.059
dirty and went up in the attic and looked at

00:22:29.059 --> 00:22:34.160
it, and somebody had taken talking, just a tube

00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:37.769
of... regular painters caulk and caulked all

00:22:37.769 --> 00:22:40.710
the leak holes on the inside. And it was fresh.

00:22:40.809 --> 00:22:43.170
They had done this literally weeks ago. Again,

00:22:43.309 --> 00:22:46.710
going to some real lengths to deceive and to

00:22:46.710 --> 00:22:48.609
hurt you. And again, in that case, I was like,

00:22:48.609 --> 00:22:51.970
oh, well, fantastic. This is going to be a big

00:22:51.970 --> 00:22:54.609
net reduction. I was able to call one of my roofers

00:22:54.609 --> 00:22:56.990
and say, hey, go walk this roof. Again, before

00:22:56.990 --> 00:22:59.069
we had bought the property, before our due diligence

00:22:59.069 --> 00:23:01.690
was over. And he had said, well, I'll be able

00:23:01.690 --> 00:23:03.789
to fix it. I'll be able to make this roof weather

00:23:03.789 --> 00:23:06.579
tight. for two thousand dollars you know and

00:23:06.579 --> 00:23:08.059
you won't have a leak for another three or four

00:23:08.059 --> 00:23:11.220
years or to do the whole roof and reroof it it

00:23:11.220 --> 00:23:13.099
was less than i thought if i remember right i

00:23:13.099 --> 00:23:14.920
think he was able to say that he'd do the reroof

00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:17.339
for like fifteen thousand so obviously when i

00:23:17.339 --> 00:23:18.799
bought i just said hey we're going to take a

00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:21.460
fifteen thousand dollar discount because it needs

00:23:21.460 --> 00:23:23.559
a whole new roof. They knew what they were doing.

00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:25.200
They were like, ah, crap, you know, we got caught.

00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:28.000
And then what I ended up doing was just re -roofing

00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:31.380
a couple of valleys in the EVE. And then we did,

00:23:31.579 --> 00:23:34.839
I want to say six or $7 ,000. And my roofing

00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:36.259
company said, hey, we'll guarantee you're not

00:23:36.259 --> 00:23:39.400
going to have another leak for five years. And

00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:42.700
we sold it that way. And we said, hey, here's

00:23:42.700 --> 00:23:44.859
the fight. Here's this roof, this guarantee.

00:23:44.900 --> 00:23:46.119
If you have a leak within five years, they'll

00:23:46.119 --> 00:23:48.359
come out and fix that. But that's one of the

00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:50.839
big things is As you're selling that, you're

00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:53.599
disclosing, hey, this is what we've done. This

00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:55.680
is what they're guaranteeing, not that it's a

00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:58.700
completely new roof. Right. We acknowledged it

00:23:58.700 --> 00:24:00.799
and we said, here's what we've done. Here's what

00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:04.220
we've done. Awesome. One thing was similar like

00:24:04.220 --> 00:24:07.099
that with there was a plumbing problem and it

00:24:07.099 --> 00:24:08.839
was just a very, you know, it was in the sugar

00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:11.940
house area, like early 1900s plumbing, all the

00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:14.940
roots had gotten into it. So. All we did was

00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:17.380
we wrote a routered the, you know, the seller

00:24:17.380 --> 00:24:18.980
did disclose this and they said, Hey, there's

00:24:18.980 --> 00:24:22.160
a big problem. You know, we took that into account,

00:24:22.339 --> 00:24:25.119
but I mean, the fix was not that bad at all.

00:24:25.420 --> 00:24:28.160
We, you know. Bored out the lines, hammered the

00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:31.539
lines, and then just for about four or five days

00:24:31.539 --> 00:24:33.619
before, again, before due diligence and our money

00:24:33.619 --> 00:24:36.700
went hard, we ran the dishwasher and then the

00:24:36.700 --> 00:24:38.480
washer dryer. We just ran a bunch of water through

00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:40.259
and said, oh, they were saying this is backing

00:24:40.259 --> 00:24:42.500
up all the time. We couldn't get it to back up

00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:45.299
again once we had, you know, augured the lines.

00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:47.720
So that was something that the seller thought

00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:49.579
was just a massive problem. Oh, you're going

00:24:49.579 --> 00:24:50.839
to have to dig all this up. You're going to have

00:24:50.839 --> 00:24:52.980
to redo all these lines. And we were like, it

00:24:52.980 --> 00:24:56.589
costs us 500 bucks. And again, when we sold it,

00:24:57.029 --> 00:25:00.250
we gave them the footage. We said, here's what

00:25:00.250 --> 00:25:02.690
the drains look like now. Here's before, here's

00:25:02.690 --> 00:25:05.670
after. And I never heard, I don't think they

00:25:05.670 --> 00:25:09.069
had another problem again. So sometimes problems

00:25:09.069 --> 00:25:12.750
as a buyer are a real opportunity. But yeah,

00:25:12.769 --> 00:25:15.869
you do have to have the benefit of wisdom to

00:25:15.869 --> 00:25:19.430
navigate that. Yeah. But if you're planning on

00:25:19.430 --> 00:25:22.150
being in a house, more than five years, that

00:25:22.150 --> 00:25:24.890
at least gives you a little bit of surety knowing

00:25:24.890 --> 00:25:27.849
that the market's going to go up gradually and

00:25:27.849 --> 00:25:31.670
you have a backing at least there. Any last things

00:25:31.670 --> 00:25:34.470
that things went way better than you were expecting?

00:25:35.289 --> 00:25:38.190
You know, I've been fortunate in my career, especially

00:25:38.190 --> 00:25:40.890
in my flipping portion. Many times I've made

00:25:40.890 --> 00:25:43.109
much more than I've never lost money on a flip.

00:25:43.250 --> 00:25:45.230
I've never lost money on a residential deal.

00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:48.900
Uh, you know, knock on wood, you know, uh, well,

00:25:48.980 --> 00:25:51.000
that's not entirely true. I mean, my partners,

00:25:51.140 --> 00:25:55.119
I, we, we took down, uh, 30 acres once to build

00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:57.380
80 homes and we actually lost a considerable

00:25:57.380 --> 00:25:58.900
amount of money on that, but that was during

00:25:58.900 --> 00:26:02.599
that 2009. 10 downgrade. So, uh, I guess I have

00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:05.039
to temper that statement, but I'm on an individual

00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:09.539
deal. Um, I I've always I've I've made much more.

00:26:10.670 --> 00:26:13.990
On individual residential flips that on many

00:26:13.990 --> 00:26:16.569
commercial deals that I've done. So Utah real

00:26:16.569 --> 00:26:21.369
estate has been up to this point. Really quite

00:26:21.369 --> 00:26:24.450
lucrative. I think we're entering into a time

00:26:24.450 --> 00:26:26.690
and appeared in the economy where maybe it is

00:26:26.690 --> 00:26:29.630
dangerous to keep treating homes like almost

00:26:29.630 --> 00:26:31.809
like a crypto type asset that it's just always

00:26:31.809 --> 00:26:34.730
going to trade up and up and up. But I don't

00:26:34.730 --> 00:26:37.690
know up to this point the risk return on residential

00:26:37.690 --> 00:26:40.930
flipping has been. Far better than many of the

00:26:40.930 --> 00:26:44.750
other investments I've made. And then just lastly,

00:26:44.750 --> 00:26:47.630
as we wrap up here, do you have any advice for

00:26:47.630 --> 00:26:49.990
first time home buyers? If you could go back

00:26:49.990 --> 00:26:52.289
to the first time you bought a house, things

00:26:52.289 --> 00:26:56.029
you would love to know or do differently. You

00:26:56.029 --> 00:26:57.910
know, again, I think I'm so jaded coming from

00:26:57.910 --> 00:27:00.750
the contractor background that most of I think

00:27:00.750 --> 00:27:03.630
a lot of my wisdom is kind of narrow siloed in

00:27:03.630 --> 00:27:07.609
that. I would just say fortune favors the bold.

00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:11.640
I'd say, yeah, look for the best area, find the

00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:13.660
worst house you can and do it. I think you can

00:27:13.660 --> 00:27:15.660
do it. Yes, you have to be careful about those

00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:17.819
goalposts, be realistic about what you can afford

00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:20.119
and how long you're going to be there. But short

00:27:20.119 --> 00:27:24.240
of that, I would say do it. I love it. Thank

00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:26.599
you so much, Adam. This was great. Love talking

00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:29.170
with you today. Enjoy being with you. Thank you

00:27:29.170 --> 00:27:31.450
everyone for listening to this episode of The

00:27:31.450 --> 00:27:34.730
Dirt on Real Estate. This audio podcast also

00:27:34.730 --> 00:27:36.990
has a video version. So if you're interested

00:27:36.990 --> 00:27:39.549
in the video version, hop on over to YouTube,

00:27:40.170 --> 00:27:43.369
The Dirt on Real Estate. At the end of each episode

00:27:43.369 --> 00:27:46.410
on the video version, we also include a home

00:27:46.410 --> 00:27:48.970
tour. So if you're interested in seeing any of

00:27:48.970 --> 00:27:52.089
those home tours, YouTube, The Dirt on Real Estate,

00:27:52.250 --> 00:27:54.490
we'd love to have you there. If you have any

00:27:54.490 --> 00:27:57.250
questions about... real estate here in Utah.

00:27:57.509 --> 00:27:59.910
I would love to speak with you. My number and

00:27:59.910 --> 00:28:02.470
email are always in the show notes below, but

00:28:02.470 --> 00:28:04.809
that's it for this week. We'll be back next week

00:28:04.809 --> 00:28:05.509
with more dirt.