The Dirt on.. PMI What It Is and How to Avoid It

WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Dirt on Real Estate, everyone.

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This is a Utah -based podcast where we get down

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and dirty with everything you need to know about

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buying, owning, and loving your first home. Today's

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show, we have a great episode ahead. We're going

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to be speaking with Casey Bentley. He is a mortgage

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officer here in Utah. And we get really specific

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on mortgage insurance, or as many of you may

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know it, as PMI, or private mortgage insurance.

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After we talk with Casey, we head out to Mapleton

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to tour one of Edge Home's single family homes

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that was actually just featured in the Utah Parade

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of Homes this year. It's a beautiful home, so

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stay tuned for that. We're gonna start off real

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quick with just some mortgage news. I just wanted

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to give you guys the current national averages

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for mortgage rates right now. So a 30 -year fixed

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rate is 6 .81 % and a 15 -year fixed is 6 .05%.

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Obviously those are national averages and they

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differ for things like FHA, your credit score,

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how much down payment you have, all of that.

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But that's your update for today's average mortgage

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rates around the nation. Let's jump in with Casey

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and learn about PMI or mortgage insurance. Thanks

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for joining me today, Casey. Super excited to

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talk with you today about mortgage insurance

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or what some people might know as personal mortgage

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insurance or PMI. So that's kind of what we're

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gonna get into and explain the basics of, but

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for those that maybe didn't watch the first episode

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that we had on, could you give us a little bit

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of your background real quick? Just a minute

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or two. Yeah, so I've been in the mortgage industry

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about five years. I think yeah, I got my license

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about five years ago, and it's been awesome.

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I've used it a lot. on the personal side to personally

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buy and invest in real estate and so it's been

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awesome there to research all the different products

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but also it has led me to research a bunch of

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different products to help everyone else and

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in any way that they're trying to get into real

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estate investment second home primary whatever

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your situation is we can usually make it work

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so that's a little bit my background Well, let's

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just hop right into it today, then. So today

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we have a more specific topic. We're going to

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really dive into mortgage insurance and what

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that entails. Maybe let's just start out. What

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exactly is PMI or mortgage insurance? Yes. So

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back in the day, I've been told this was way

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before I was born, I think that you used to need

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to have 20 percent. as a down payment to even

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buy a house. Like they would not let you buy

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a home if you had less than 20 % down payment.

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How did anyone buy a house? Well to be fair homes

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I guess were probably $60 ,000 so that probably

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helped a little bit. But then, I actually don't

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know when this changed, but recently there was

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these companies that came out and they're mortgage

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insurance companies. They went to the mortgage

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investors in the companies and said, look, if

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you have people that want to buy a home with

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less than 20 % down, we'll cover the difference.

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So we're not gonna cover the whole distance,

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like the whole difference, but we'll cover 15

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% of it. So that allows... people to only need

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5 % and sometimes 3 .5 % because these mortgage

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insurance companies are insuring that gap to

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get you to that 20%. So it really didn't change

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anything for the mortgage company. I mean it

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did because now they can do a lot more loans,

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but it's just another type of insurance to help.

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cover in case the house goes down and it actually

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I think is more for the banks and the investors

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than it is for the buyer but it also helps you

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as the buyer because you can get in but if your

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home goes down in value it doesn't really do

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much for you you still just are in that same

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situation so that's kind of the general idea

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No, that makes sense. I didn't realize that there

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was a time that you actually couldn't buy a house

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if you didn't have 20 percent. I thought it was

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just standard. Yeah, well, from my understanding,

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that's yeah. So it's kind of crazy to think about.

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But yeah, that's totally crazy. But that was

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a great explanation of why kind of it exists

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and where it came from. Let's see. This might

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be a little bit of a dumb question, but I'm going

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to ask it just in case some other people are

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wondering. What's the difference, and you kind

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of touched on it a little bit already, difference

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in mortgage insurance and just homeowners insurance.

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Yes. I don't know if you get that question, if

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people ask, like, is this the same thing or is

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it different? No, I get that all the time because

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they just hear insurance and it sounds like,

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OK, why am I double paying for insurance? So.

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homeowners insurance that's what covers if your

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roof floods or if there's a leak or any damage

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to your home that is through a different insurance

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agent and they specifically cover any damages

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to your home and there's also different policies

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that can cover like your inside like if your

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fridge breaks if your TV gets destroyed if your

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stuff gets stolen so that would be homeowners

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insurance Homeowners insurance that is a monthly

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payment as well. So as I'm calculating payments,

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I do usually throw in an estimate for homeowners

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insurance then on the other side there is mortgage

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insurance, which Only applies if you have less

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than 20 % down payment So then that is another

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monthly payment that adds to your monthly mortgage

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that you pay every single month. So then roughly

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How much is mortgage insurance on a monthly basis?

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I don't know, say on like a $500 ,000 home. Yeah.

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So it's kind of percentage wise. So it's usually

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between about 35 % to 55%. So on a $500 ,000

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home, you're probably 200, maybe 220. Like I

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said, if you go and take that and times it by

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35%, see what number you get. Well, let's just

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see, but That's kind of the percentages that

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if you're ever trying to calculate it See about

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170 to 200 depending that's on the lower end

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I think the higher end would be about 200 220

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35 to 55 percent if you're trying to calculate

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it on your own is usually a good range to do

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Is that of the loan value? Yep That would be

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the loan. So if you are looking in the 500 ,000

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range, you'd want to find your loan amount, which

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is just, you just minus your down payment and

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you just multiply that by about 35 to 45%. And

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then the number it gives you will be a yearly

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number. So you'll just have to like, it'll come

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back as like 2 ,500. You obviously, then you

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just divide that by 12 to give you the monthly.

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That makes total sense. Awesome. You kind of

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said it already, but a buyer is required to have

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mortgage insurance anywhere under 20 percent,

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correct? Yes, so an asterisk on that. Was that

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your full question or was that? Yeah, yeah. So

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what I guess for a full question, when is a buyer

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required to have mortgage insurance? OK, yeah,

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so. Asterisked on that statement I said. So if

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you do a conventional mortgage, then that statement

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is true. You only need mortgage insurance if

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you have less than 20 % down payment. If you're

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doing an FHA mortgage, you could have 50 % down.

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Like if you're buying a $500 ,000 home and you're

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putting $250 ,000 as a down payment, you're still

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gonna have mortgage insurance. FHA, it is a permanent

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monthly mortgage insurance. The only way to get

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rid of it is to refinance into a conventional

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loan. That's a great clarification because I

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don't think a lot of people know that. Well a

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lot of people right now, I've personally been

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saying let's get you into an FHA because the

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interest rates are a little bit better. The down

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payment is 3 .5 % instead of 5%. So it's great

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to get you into the home. And then the idea is

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that as interest rates hopefully get better,

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by the time you build that equity and now you're

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at that 20 % down payment range, we can just

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refinance you into a conventional. And by then

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you've paid down some principal, your home's

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gone up in value, and so you can get a little

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bit better interest rate. And so the idea would

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be to either keep the interest rate you had at

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FHA or get better and get - of your monthly mortgage

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insurance. So that's kind of the strategy there.

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Yeah, no, that sounds like an amazing strategy

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for a lot of people to be able to get into the

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home when you can, start building equity when

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you can. Explain what a refinance is for somebody

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that just has no idea. So a refinance you're

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pretty much just redoing your mortgage so if

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you bought a home five years ago and you bought

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it for 500 ,000 that home is now worth 600 ,000

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and so now you have about a hundred thousand

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dollars of equity in there that's gonna help

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your interest rate because banks like to see

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that you have that better gap and that's what

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a down payment does as well so like that all

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a down payment does is just bring that difference

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a little bit bigger and it's less risk for the

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bank so refinance you'll just go in and like

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if we got you a six percent rate and rates are

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now at five percent we can actually just go redo

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your mortgage and essentially erase the six percent

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and change it to a five percent and it lowers

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your payment and you can refinance about every

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six months if you want like if rates are coming

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down and coming down and you just went to a five

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but now rates are at four in another six months

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we could just erase the five and put a four and

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it just redoes your payment and lowers your payment.

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That's also why it's so hard with how high interest

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rates are right now because the interest rate

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is by far the most temporary thing of the whole

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process. Like when you're looking at a home you

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should kind of be worried about price and if

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you like it because those things are a little

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bit harder to change but an interest rate you

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can change every six months if you wanted by

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way of refinance. Clarifying just kind of what

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we've gone over so far then, for someone that

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does an FHA loan, they have to have mortgage

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insurance the whole time they're doing the loan,

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correct? Yep. Okay. And then for a conventional

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loan, it's up to 20%. Yep. So as soon as your

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loan, if you take your loan and divide that by

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how much your home's worth, and it comes out

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to 80 % or less, then the mortgage company will

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actually just drop your monthly mortgage insurance

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automatically. So they don't even need to refinance

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in that scenario. They just automatically take

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it off. If you can prove to them that your home

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is at that 80 % or lower level, so if it's at

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75 % even better, 70 even better, they'll just

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automatically get rid of it. You can just call

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them up and say, hey, I want to drop the mortgage

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insurance. They'll do an appraisal and then they'll

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just get rid of it. So I think that's another

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big question that people have is, okay, if I

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do have a conventional loan, but I put 5 % down,

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my equity's gone up, and now I am at that 80

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% value. I don't know if I said that well, but...

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Yeah, that sounded great. Yeah, how do you get

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rid of it? And that, no, that was easier than

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I even thought. You just call them up and they

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don't even have to refinance. They just do a

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quick appraisal and that's it. yeah and a lot

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of times i mean it'll be on your mortgage portal

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or you can just reach out to me and i can guide

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you a little bit better but i've done it personally

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like on one of my properties i put 10 down originally

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and then after two or three years as i paid it

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down and it went up i was able to call them up

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and get it removed they definitely don't necessarily

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enjoy removing it because it's that extra payment

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but they legally have to so if you kind of just

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can push back a little bit if they're being weird

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but they they they legally have to so that you

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usually don't have too many issues but it's it's

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pretty slick so here's a question that maybe

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you'll know maybe not once someone buys a home

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the mortgage interest is all deductible so and

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that can be a big tax deduction for people that

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can kind of be one of your first really big tax

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deductions that you have yeah Is the personal

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mortgage insurance or mortgage insurance also

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tax deductible or not? So I'm not a tax advisor,

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but I don't think so. So depending on how you

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do it, like for rental properties, you can write

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off your homeowners insurance, you can write

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off your taxes, you can write off your interest.

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If it's your primary residence, I believe you

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can just write off your interest. So it kind

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of depends also if it's a investment or a primary,

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but I think in either of those scenarios, I don't

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think you can write off the private mortgage

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insurance. But with investment, there is a lot

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more you can write off. And obviously, ask your

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tax accountant. We're not those professionals.

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We don't deal with that. But I was just a little

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curious. so another question here for you are

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there different types of mortgage insurance like

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are there times that the lender may pay it or

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it's just a one -time upfront payment or is it

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always just whoever has the loan pays it on a

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monthly basis so there is options for the lender

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to pay it but i've only seen it once and it was

00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.700
like the only way for the deal to work but rarely

00:13:03.700 --> 00:13:05.960
does the lender pay because it obviously is very

00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:08.279
expensive and costs them money and I don't even

00:13:08.279 --> 00:13:09.840
think it was me I think it was just someone in

00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:12.580
my office had like a family member that they

00:13:12.580 --> 00:13:14.340
needed to make the deal work so they had to pay

00:13:14.340 --> 00:13:17.279
for that upfront type thing and so he kind of

00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:19.899
covered that out of his own pocket but there

00:13:19.899 --> 00:13:22.980
are different types so it's kind of funny there's

00:13:22.980 --> 00:13:26.340
MIP and then there's PMI and I don't know why

00:13:26.340 --> 00:13:29.700
there's two different phrases But PMI is private

00:13:29.700 --> 00:13:31.419
mortgage insurance. That's the one that most

00:13:31.419 --> 00:13:33.639
people have heard of. That is actually the term

00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:36.519
that conventional mortgages use. Then there's

00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:39.860
MIP, which is actually the official term. for

00:13:39.860 --> 00:13:44.159
the mortgage insurance on FHA loans. So it doesn't

00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:46.779
matter if you say MIP or mortgage insurance or

00:13:46.779 --> 00:13:48.539
private mortgage insurance, it's all the same,

00:13:48.580 --> 00:13:51.120
but for some reason they differentiate. Here's

00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:53.460
another little asterisk with FHA loans. Like

00:13:53.460 --> 00:13:55.179
I said, they're great for getting you into the

00:13:55.179 --> 00:13:56.980
property. There's less down payment, they're

00:13:56.980 --> 00:13:59.539
better interest rates, but they also have what's

00:13:59.539 --> 00:14:02.200
called an upfront mortgage insurance premium.

00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:06.440
And so outside of the monthly amount, onto your

00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:08.820
closing costs, they're gonna take your loan amount

00:14:08.820 --> 00:14:13.299
and times it by 1 .75%. So on a $500 ,000 loan,

00:14:13.860 --> 00:14:16.440
you're looking at about, what is that, 8 ,500

00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:21.580
to nine grand? 1 .75 % of 500 ,000. And they're

00:14:21.580 --> 00:14:24.570
gonna add that to your closing costs. So it's

00:14:24.570 --> 00:14:26.889
another upfront cost that you'll be paying. Now

00:14:26.889 --> 00:14:29.450
how they also get around it is they say this

00:14:29.450 --> 00:14:32.509
is the one and only closing cost that you can

00:14:32.509 --> 00:14:35.190
actually wrap into your loan, and the loan can

00:14:35.190 --> 00:14:37.929
pay for it. You can't wrap any other closing

00:14:37.929 --> 00:14:40.149
cost into your loan, but this upfront mortgage

00:14:40.149 --> 00:14:42.850
insurance can get wrapped into your loan, so

00:14:42.850 --> 00:14:46.330
you don't actually have to pay that at closing,

00:14:46.690 --> 00:14:49.429
but it still is a cost that's added onto your

00:14:49.429 --> 00:14:51.330
loan that you're then gonna go and pay interest

00:14:51.330 --> 00:14:54.980
every month on. so a lot of people don't like

00:14:54.980 --> 00:14:58.759
FHA loans because of that they are a little I

00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:01.559
guess more costly upfront but with the lower

00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:04.679
interest rate it kind of evens out but as far

00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:08.159
as different types it's not like they're different

00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:10.720
types it's just FHAs that way and conventionals

00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:12.960
this way and those are pretty much the two main

00:15:13.910 --> 00:15:16.409
programs as far as mortgage insurance and they

00:15:16.409 --> 00:15:18.929
kind of just have their own way of doing it and

00:15:18.929 --> 00:15:20.710
their own percentages that they calculate it

00:15:20.710 --> 00:15:23.210
with and that's pretty much it. So shifting on,

00:15:23.629 --> 00:15:27.169
I'd love your opinion advice a little bit here

00:15:27.169 --> 00:15:31.470
for a new buyer that it might be a stretch to

00:15:31.470 --> 00:15:35.350
get to 20 % down but maybe they could do it actually.

00:15:36.049 --> 00:15:39.679
What would your advice be? Do they make the stretch

00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:42.759
to get to 20 % down to avoid the mortgage insurance?

00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:46.039
Or do they stay a little more conservative, maybe

00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:50.279
do 10 % now, and then once their equity comes

00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:52.960
up a little bit, take it off later? Do you have

00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:55.549
any advice for that? Yeah, I'm a little biased.

00:15:55.649 --> 00:15:59.710
I always like to leverage more of someone else's

00:15:59.710 --> 00:16:02.110
money than my own. So if it's me personally,

00:16:02.149 --> 00:16:05.250
I would just do 10%. The mortgage insurance is

00:16:05.250 --> 00:16:08.710
going to be less less if you put 10 % than 5

00:16:08.710 --> 00:16:11.330
% and then even less if you're going to do 15

00:16:11.330 --> 00:16:16.129
to 10. But where that drops off at 20 It just

00:16:16.129 --> 00:16:17.870
kind of depends on the person a lot of people

00:16:17.870 --> 00:16:20.409
are very stable And they have a budget and they

00:16:20.409 --> 00:16:21.950
know that they're not going to be super house

00:16:21.950 --> 00:16:24.490
poor so they could put the full 20 % and have

00:16:24.490 --> 00:16:26.250
everything budgeted out and know that it's not

00:16:26.250 --> 00:16:29.110
going to Over extend their savings account But

00:16:29.110 --> 00:16:31.570
if they wanted to keep a little bit back and

00:16:31.570 --> 00:16:33.909
maybe invest it as on the on the side and just

00:16:33.909 --> 00:16:37.190
do 10 % down It kind of just depends on the person,

00:16:37.190 --> 00:16:40.590
but me personally I would just do the 10 % down

00:16:40.590 --> 00:16:43.769
and then look to either refinance or just get

00:16:43.769 --> 00:16:46.629
that mortgage insurance removed as your home

00:16:46.629 --> 00:16:49.389
grows in value but it is very dependent on the

00:16:49.389 --> 00:16:51.730
person and their financial fingerprint and their

00:16:51.730 --> 00:16:54.149
thoughts on finances but yeah me personally i

00:16:54.149 --> 00:16:56.610
always like to do the little the least amount

00:16:56.610 --> 00:17:00.159
of down possible that makes somewhat sense That's

00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:01.980
a good point. You can walk through the numbers

00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:04.559
with them and help them make that decision if

00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:07.700
they want to. And just kind of an outside perspective

00:17:07.700 --> 00:17:11.039
that is a little less emotionally attached. And

00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:13.200
that's where you step in and it's really great

00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:17.039
in that process. Yep, exactly. When your clients

00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:20.019
come up and are asking questions about mortgage

00:17:20.019 --> 00:17:23.619
insurance, are there any common misunderstandings

00:17:23.619 --> 00:17:26.460
that come up or questions that they have? Not

00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:29.019
really. I think everyone's aware of what PMI

00:17:29.019 --> 00:17:31.759
is. Think the stigma out there is it's a lot

00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:34.579
worse and more scary than it actually is I mean

00:17:34.579 --> 00:17:36.680
and I say that just because I mean it there's

00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:39.079
a good chance You're gonna be paying it it helps

00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:41.339
you get in the home It does necessarily suck

00:17:41.339 --> 00:17:43.859
But I've also come across some buyers that will

00:17:43.859 --> 00:17:46.900
not like they refuse to buy a home if they have

00:17:46.900 --> 00:17:50.339
to pay mortgage insurance And I just I totally

00:17:50.339 --> 00:17:52.920
disagree with that thought process and mentality,

00:17:53.420 --> 00:17:56.640
because by the time it takes you all that time

00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:00.220
to actually save up enough for 20 % down, I mean

00:18:00.220 --> 00:18:04.200
20 % on 500 ,000 is 100 grand, so however long

00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:07.460
it takes you to save up $100 ,000, you're losing

00:18:07.460 --> 00:18:10.559
out on that home appreciating every year that

00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:14.099
you didn't buy it because you were worried about

00:18:14.099 --> 00:18:17.519
the mortgage insurance. And that's a rare case.

00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:20.319
And I know that like Dave Ramsey is a big advocate

00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:24.259
of 15 year mortgages and 20 % down. And it works

00:18:24.259 --> 00:18:26.279
for some people, but the majority of people,

00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:28.619
the best way to build wealth is through real

00:18:28.619 --> 00:18:31.480
estate. And if that means doing 5 % down and

00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:33.279
then worrying about the mortgage insurance once

00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:34.980
you've built some equity, I just think that's

00:18:34.980 --> 00:18:37.240
a little bit better strategy. But yeah, there's

00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:39.740
not usually any super major concerns. I think

00:18:39.740 --> 00:18:41.660
a lot of people are shocked sometimes that it

00:18:41.660 --> 00:18:44.980
can be up in the 200 range, like $200 a month.

00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:48.720
The FHA is always a misconception with the upfront

00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:50.400
mortgage insurance as well. They're like, Whoa,

00:18:50.420 --> 00:18:53.519
what's this $8 ,000 charge onto my closing costs?

00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:56.480
I'm like, that's FHA. They said it. I have no

00:18:56.480 --> 00:18:58.759
control over that. I mean, good thing we can

00:18:58.759 --> 00:19:00.480
wrap it into your loan, but you're still paying

00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:03.539
that it is. It's more just kind of a shock factor

00:19:03.539 --> 00:19:06.460
on how much it can be sometimes, but yeah, it's

00:19:06.460 --> 00:19:08.599
definitely not a reason to not buy a home. I

00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:11.160
would still recommend getting in, building some

00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:14.519
equity, being a homeowner and starting that process.

00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:17.339
Well, I think it's even safer here in Utah, where

00:19:17.339 --> 00:19:20.279
we have such a strong real estate market. We're

00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:24.059
up year over year over year. I was talking with

00:19:24.059 --> 00:19:28.420
Todd last week on the show. And Utah's expected,

00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:33.309
I think, 3 % or 4 % increase. this year and then

00:19:33.309 --> 00:19:35.349
four to seven percent is what they're estimating

00:19:35.349 --> 00:19:38.309
for next year. Trying to match those numbers

00:19:38.309 --> 00:19:43.690
with your savings is so difficult. So I am I'm

00:19:43.690 --> 00:19:45.509
also of that opinion that if you can get into

00:19:45.509 --> 00:19:47.930
the home sooner and start building equity with

00:19:47.930 --> 00:19:50.049
the market, it's just going to help you long

00:19:50.049 --> 00:19:53.230
term. Any other last final advice that's kind

00:19:53.230 --> 00:19:55.619
of on your mind for us today? Not really. This

00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:57.579
was a great topic. I honestly didn't think we'd

00:19:57.579 --> 00:19:59.940
be able to talk 25 minutes on mortgage insurance,

00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:01.839
but there's a lot to it and I want to make sure

00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:03.799
people understand it because it is there and

00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:06.940
it's obviously very common. 95 % of people need

00:20:06.940 --> 00:20:09.599
to pay it. But yeah, definitely don't let it

00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:11.480
stop you from buying a home. That would be my

00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:13.859
biggest thing is there's those 1 out of 10 where

00:20:13.859 --> 00:20:16.319
they're like, I do not want to pay it. And they

00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:19.140
are like pulling money out of investment accounts

00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:21.799
and pulling money out of trust and family accounts.

00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:24.339
And like you said, the Utah market's strong.

00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:26.420
I mean, if you're buying a $500 ,000 home and

00:20:26.420 --> 00:20:31.519
the market goes up 5%, I mean, the 5 % on 500

00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:35.039
,000 is... What is that? $50 ,000 that you just

00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:38.500
made in one year. Now, how realistic is it for

00:20:38.500 --> 00:20:41.680
you to save $50 ,000 in one year when you could

00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:44.180
just have $50 ,000 added onto your home value

00:20:44.180 --> 00:20:47.799
in one year? So that's just my final plug. But

00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:49.420
yeah, if you have questions about Morgan Insurance,

00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:52.759
let me know. It can be simple. It can be complicated.

00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:54.680
It just depends on your financial fingerprint

00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:57.359
and your situation. What's the best way for people

00:20:57.359 --> 00:20:59.759
to reach out to you if they do have questions

00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:01.900
and want to talk to you one on one? Yeah, I mean,

00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:04.700
if you want to put my number and my email in

00:21:04.700 --> 00:21:07.420
the notes, but I also just have Bentley Advisory

00:21:07.420 --> 00:21:10.319
Group on Instagram and TikTok and I have a Facebook.

00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:13.220
So feel free to go look those up and just message

00:21:13.220 --> 00:21:16.980
me. But text, email, all of that's great. Awesome.

00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:19.180
Yeah, we'll put all your info in the show notes

00:21:19.180 --> 00:21:22.019
below. Thank you so much for being with us today.

00:21:22.220 --> 00:21:23.880
Casey, it was a great conversation. Thank you.

00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:26.059
This was awesome. Thank you guys for listening

00:21:26.059 --> 00:21:28.059
to the Dirt on Real Estate today. That's the

00:21:28.059 --> 00:21:31.440
end of this audio podcast. We do do a video version

00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:34.579
as well on YouTube, just the Dirt on Real Estate.

00:21:35.079 --> 00:21:37.460
At the end of the video version of this podcast,

00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:40.660
we also do a home tour each week. This week we

00:21:40.660 --> 00:21:44.359
were in Mapleton with Edge Homes, touring one

00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:46.579
of their single family homes that was just featured

00:21:46.579 --> 00:21:49.809
in the parade of homes actually. So, beautiful

00:21:49.809 --> 00:21:51.990
home. If you want to see that, head over to YouTube,

00:21:52.190 --> 00:21:55.009
The Dirt on Real Estate. Thank you guys for watching.

00:21:55.230 --> 00:21:57.509
Please leave us a review if you like this show.

00:21:58.069 --> 00:22:00.390
That's it for this week. We'll be back next week

00:22:00.390 --> 00:22:01.049
with more dirt.